I do agree, a neo-orthodox fellow in my pulpit would have to hide his colours a long time before a wholesale change could be made. Of course, such dramatic changes are very rarely how it happens. The change is much more subtle. A less militant fellow shows up, things become ‘smoother’, different outside preachers and writings get promoted, etc.

Some churches lurch back and forth from militancy to moderation and back again depending on pastoral leadership. Very rarely to they move back to militancy after they have moved to a compromising position, however. And all these moves are almost always pastor led.

As to your experience in your area, I can’t really comment on that. I do know a good number of the guys in CA who would be in the FBF there. I have appreciated their ministries, as I appreciate yours.

I do think that there is much too much rancour against the preservationist viewpoint. I don’t hold to it, but I think I understand the mindset and philsophy behind it. I believe there is a reasonable and rational argument to be made for that point of view, but I disagree with the foundational assumptions. Maybe I will blog on that sometime. I recognize that my point of view also rests on unprovable assumptions. As a result, I cannot make the Bible versions issue a test of fellowship. I wish others wouldn’t as well. We should each be fully persuaded of our positions, but we should also recognize that we don’t have explicit revelation for the means by which God preserved his Word.

Well, I have probably already said too much in that last paragraph! I certainly don’t want to get into a debate about it in the discussion threads! There is already too much debate about it elsewhere, in my opinion.

Thanks to both Greg and Kent for their comments.

Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

I generally agree with you. I would contend that people saved, and thus guided by the Holy Spirit and trained to be discerning based upon the Word of God, would not tolerate something that would move from FBF to neo-orthodox.

I’m not in any kind of organized fellowship. When I wrote my letter about ten years ago to all the FBF guys in our area, to let them know the four or five Scriptural reasons why I would not be returning, no one cared. I know this, if someone wrote that kind of letter to me, I would call and ask about it. It is a “fellowship” after all.

I truly fellowship with other local churches of like faith and practice. They would be characterized by Baptist, independent, separatist (personal and ecclesiastical), perfect preservation of Scripture, local church ecclesiology. The ones I am absolutely closest to also have very conservative music and preach expositionally. There are many more of what I am describing than most would think.

By the way, because I believe in preservation in the TR and MT, strong music and dress standards, the SI types would prefer to lump us in with a kind of Hyles group. That’s the kind of “deep discernment” they have. I’m an anti-promotion, repentant faith, person.

However, I would hope he would have to bring in some new people to do it, if you have done your job right… :)

Another man could come in and promote a quite different flavour of fundamentalism and the church would generally go along with it, most likely.

Or still another man could come in and turn the church liberal or neo-orthodox. That would take more time and require a more skilled leader to make that kind of change, but it is entirely possible … some might resist, but if the guy was smooth enough, it could be done before anyone was the wiser.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say. The actual opportunities for outside fellowship are quite limited here, very similar to yours. But my point wasn’t what TYPE of fundamentalism we have, but how the pastor affects the fundamentalism of the local church.

Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

In some areas, that may be true.

In Maine, there are so few to associate with that there tends to be overlap in the “orbits.” There are only 5-6 of us in the FBF in the whole state. The nearest FBF pastor to me is about an hour away. To the best of my knowledge, I am the only alumnus of my Bible college pastoring in this state. Furthermore, in my church’s recent past, we have had loose connections with everyone from John MacArthur to Jack Hyles. My circle of pastoral fellowship has involved people from the GARBC, IFCA background, Word of Life grads, Hyles-Anderson, and BJU… it’s a wide and varied mix. I even have semi-regular interaction with the local Orthodox Presbyterian pastor!

I understand what you are saying- but it just isn’t a universal principle. Associations can be helpful- but your people need to be taught more than “look for the union label.”