Comments on: on Piper’s advocacy of sinning less often https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/ fundamentalism by blunt instrument Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:31 +0000 hourly 1 By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-563 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:31 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-563 Hi Howard

Now you are getting my point, I think.

To be fair, I don’t think Piper is necessarily advocating that one should tolerate a person in ministry guilty of these practices. He is probably thinking of a person preparing for ministry.

Nevertheless…

At best, Piper is not clear in this article who he is talking about AND the logical extension of his argument is the scenario we are discussing.

I believe that this article illustrates serious problems with Piper’s writing and thinking. Some say they have been blessed by his writing. I suspect that is because they have a fondness for his theological system. They miss the implications of Piper’s errors as a result.

Regards
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

]]> By: Howard https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-562 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 05:57:36 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-562 I wish I would pay more attention to what I read, I get in a hurry and sometimes when we like someone we are forgiving without critical thinking taking place.

heres a Quote from pipers paper.

The problem is not just how not to fail. The problem is how to deal with failure so that it doesn’t sweep away your whole life into wasted mediocrity with no impact for Christ. The great tragedy is not masturbation or fornication or pornography. The tragedy is that Satan uses guilt from these failures to strip you of every radical dream you ever had or might have.

That statement scares me, If I had a pastor or youth pastor dealing with the M,f,p, issues I would think that maby discipline was in order not try to make them feel better.

I thought the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, not satan..

Satan uses our past to try to bring us under condemnation, or say were not worthy when were truly under the blood now.

wasnt it Esau that had issues and he missed his blessing, He was called a fornicator, and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Hebrews 12 talks about this,

Thanks again.
Howard

]]> By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-561 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:06:23 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-561 Howard, thank you for the comment.

I don’t disagree with you about how sanctification works. No one is advocating perfection here.

You said:

my weapons aren’t carnal, yet powerful, Prayer, and submission to Him.

But Piper is advocating the use of a carnal, defiant, worldly attitude as a weapon in the face of “my enemy.” Whose kingdom is glorified with an attitude like that?

You also say:

I suppose a good purpose for Pipers article would be for young people who are trying to follow Christ but are letting the devil tell them they can’t win or succeed. And ultimately give up.

I think that is Piper’s aim, at least in part, but he isn’t pointing anyone to victory over sin, to maturity. He is saying don’t quit because you will sin anyway. He advocates just carrying on with ministry plans without assurance of victory in these critical areas. He uses the word ‘fornication’ in the article as part of the category of sins he is talking about. So… are we to think that Piper is willing to hire a youth pastor who has a problem with fornication (but its getting better) who nevertheless isn’t going to succumb to the worse temptation of a three car garage and big house, because he defies the enemy to get him down?

Can you even imagine such a scenario?

I don’t think Piper would do such a thing, but he is giving men assurance that if they can’t lick their moral problems completely, stay in the ministry because giving up would be the worst disaster.

Amazing.

Regards
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

PS I edited your response for spelling and formatting. I don’t think I cut anything out.

]]> By: Howard https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-560 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:29:48 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-560 Pipers article is actually pretty good.

Its not license to sin, and yet we do have an advocate with the father “IF” we sin, so it would be implied that when we become a follower of Christ we cease from sin.

Yet we do fall.

When I became a follower of Christ I didn’t cease from sin thus bringing up the argument was I even saved? Barely… God disciplined me, saved me.

Now with the Help of Christ, since my weapons aren’t carnal, yet powerful, Prayer, and submission to Him. The kingdom of God is forcefully advancing, and the Forceful lay hold of it. Matthew 11:12 My force needs to be hatred of sin, and towards temptation, and cast my cares upon Christ so he brings me through my temptation. The process brings us to maturity, becoming perfect.

“mature” I don’t know any perfect people, lots of mature people in Christ.

I suppose a good purpose for Pipers article would be for young people who are trying to follow Christ but are letting the devil tell them they can’t win or succeed. And ultimately give up.

But there is an aspect that could be discussed, especially for those who want the blessing, like Esau who lost his blessing, Hebrews 12. So we can lose something if we continue to resist the Holy spirit, and have no conception of what God’s plan is for our lives. God’s plan is not all inclusive for those who will not resist the devil… Israel would not believe God, and therefore they could never enter into His rest.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.

]]> By: Chris Anderson https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-546 Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:17:30 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-546 Thanks, Don. I hadn’t seen Piper’s article, but appreciated it.

]]> By: Don Johnson https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-544 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 05:03:00 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-544 But… do you think the spirit of defiance that Piper describes is godly?

And do you think that a man in the ministry should expect continual failure in the areas mentioned, perhaps just less often?

And if continued failure is acceptable, is there a point at which it disqualifies?

Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

]]> By: avu https://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/comment-page-1/#comment-543 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 02:29:00 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2007/12/19/on-pipers-advocacy-of-sinning-less-often/#comment-543 [I don’t expect we men in the ministry will have perfectly unblemished lives, especially in our earlier years. But I do expect that we must maintain victory over sin. And there does come a point where persistent failure disqualifies permanently, does it not?]
Does not maintaining victory over sin include wrestling like Romans 7 and confessing like I John 1? An “above reproach” man is not one who does not sin. He is one who when he sins, confesses, forsakes and rearms himself for the fight. It seems to me that this is what Piper is saying.

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