Comments on: conversing with evangelicals – 2

By: ox

ox — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:57:51 +0000

Hi Jerry

Well, I don’t like to use the word ‘false’ in describing Calvinists, but rather ‘mistaken’, or ‘incomplete’. The word ‘false’ is too closely connected to false teachers. I don’t think most Calvinists would fall in that category. They do preach salvation by faith alone and preach Christ.

In the quote that Len gave us, I think Dr Bob was probably referring to a specific person. He had many friends who were Calvinists. Perhaps one of his closest friends, Dr. Paisley, is of course a strong Calvinist.

But I do agree that the 5-point system is forced upon the Bible at several points, rather than derived from the Bible.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: Jerry Bouey

Jerry Bouey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:34:34 +0000

Maybe the Five Point Calvinist is a liar by stating they are teaching doctrine from the Scriptures when their theology is false and is not truly based on the Scriptures themselves, but on their own theories and eisegesis.

By: LP

LP — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:31:44 +0000

Don,
I would love to know what Dr. Bob Jr. meant when he referenced the “5 Point Calvinist” as a “liar.”
I am guessing here but I think it may be the less than the honorable way (and I am being nice here!) it is being taught.
That’s where we need to sound the alarm and hold our Christian institutions accountable.

By: ox

ox — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:39:04 +0000

In reply to LP.

Hi Len

I love everybody!

Hmmm….

I thought of several smart remarks to reply to that one, but I’ll keep it to myself.

I am thinking of a post on this. It is in the ‘cogitation’ stage, but I think it’ll erupt in a day or two. I do agree that it would be nice to have a more forthright presentation of who and what you are, especially when it comes to schools and such. I suppose that these things change gradually over time and some aren’t even aware that they have changed. They think they are standing right where they’ve always been.

But it remains to us in the trenches to ask the uncomfortable questions. We should not shirk that duty, whether it be for our own benefit or to warn our own flocks and families, etc.

Well, I am off… sitting in an internet cafe, waiting for my van to be repaired. It’s pouring rain here. The shop called, van is ready (waiting for parts) but I’m thinking this nice warm cafe beats walking up the block in the rain.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: LP

LP — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:45:23 +0000

Dear Don,

Me!? Trying to stir things up? I love everybody! Lurkers included!

It is interesting to read the comments of Dr. Bob Jones Jr. on the “issue.” It will be debated and discussed (and fought and separated over) until Christ returns.

My beef is the way it is being taught. If it is such a “serious subject” as some like to tout, then why not be forthright and very clear and USE the word to identify yourself as a Calvinist.

I would at least like the opportunity to warn my children of who they need to be wary of.

I also understand that the shoe fits both ways.

By: ox

ox — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:06:51 +0000

In reply to LP.

Hi Len

Trying to stir things up, eh?

I tend to agree with Dr. Bob on this one, but it’s not the real point of my article! My point here is that conservative evangelicals seem to be identifying Calvinism with orthodoxy and are thus unwilling to come to closer fellowship with a group like fundamentalists who don’t generally make Calvinism the test of fellowship.

As I think about it, another hurdle has come to mind, I think I’ll add a blog post about it later.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: LP

LP — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:56:02 +0000

“I have never known it to fail that when five-point Calvinism becomes the chief end of a man’s ministry and the most important thing in his preaching, that man becomes cold, dead, egotistical, and a liar.”
Dr. Bob Jones Jr.

By: LP

LP — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:02:43 +0000

Pastor Johnson,
You are not confused about your understanding of Calvinism. God presents the teaching of election and free will as a mystery and it should be accepted by all of God’s people as just that! It is not a “serious” subject as some like to promote it BUT it is a mysterious one.
What is serious is the unethical and underhanded way it has been taught in recent years.
For example, a young man goes off to a fundamental, separated Christian college and graduates a five point Calvinist and heads off to McArthur’s school in CA. What happened? The parents in these situations are many times left blindsided and confused.
I would have more respect for a person who holds to a Calvinistic position if they would just be honest and state upfront where they are on this issue. If you want to believe in Calvinism fine…I don’t agree you but who cares what I think? What I do care about is how my children will be influenced and what they will be taught.
Mr. Theologian, please be respectful of my home and the values that I have taught to my children. Be honest with my kids when you are teaching them. If you want to try and convince them that Calvinism is the right way, go ahead. Just be honest and tell them upfront.