Hi Art

Thanks for the comment. I didn’t say the message was a good message. I said it was largely misunderstood and misrepresented.

As for the NASB, that isn’t relevant. BJU has always been neutral in the Calvinist/Arminian debate, I think it still is, although many of the younger set have become quite enamoured of Calvinism of late.

But neither Calvinism nor Versions are separating issues. They aren’t matters of disobedience, on either side (in most cases), and they aren’t matters of heretical error. They are differences of understanding without absolute Biblical proof on either side, so should be dealt with charitably and without rancour.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

If a message has to be dissected and re-explained, then it is not a good message. I like Brother Sweatt, but I think he honestly believes that these Calvinists are the only real problem.

I would say that it is preaching your likes and dislikes and looking back at the “good old days” without criticizing what was wrong is the real problem.

As for Hyles in the old days: His doctrine was always “fluid” and often almost heretical. His comment that “only Jack Hyles could be Jack Hyles” is like saying “only Oral Roberts could be Oral Roberts.” They are both of equal value.

I am NOT a Calvinist, and I have had this conversation with Brother Sweatt at a camp retreat where he was preaching. This is not a cheap shot.

By the way, since so much of BJU is heading down the NASB – Calvinist path, shouldn’t the “separatists” at FBFI separate from her?

Hi Becky,

Tell Mike that probably blogs about tractors are more edifying!

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Hi Becky,

Yes, it’s quite interesting, see my next post about sectarianism. I think all the others who are linking to Master’s article picked it up off the first comment on that thread.

Masters is excellent. But take note of Ken Field’s comment on Master’s “rant”. I suppose now we should have the FBF deal with Masters also.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/?page=articles&id=13

Hi Charles

Thanks for your note. This is more in the lines of where I want the conversation to go.

While I agree that there are other factors such as a lack of leadership (perhaps), but to say the appeal of Calvinism as expressed by the “Conservative Evangelicals” is a significant factor, if not a major factor in the shift. In addition, there is a desire for less separation from the world on the part of many and a general dislike of the authoritative teaching fundamentalists offer. There are other factors as well.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

“I am interested in discussing the content of the message and the basic point pastor Sweatt was making.” I agree.

Would you say, he was concern that fundamentalism today doesn’t have the leaders who are attracting young men to stay in the ranks.

The strong leaders of the pass, the Rices, the Jones, the Roloff’s, the Roberson, the Dallas Billington, (Akron Baptist) Harold Henninger of Canton Baptist) all fundamentlist are gone. Those preachers that followed them, were not Calvinist. The schools and Seminaries he mention have just about closed, are not because they are going Calvinist, but no strong leaders.

I agree that if we are going to keep young men in the fundamental rank, we need the integrity of men who know how to pastor and teach the Word. If young men can’t follow their pastors we are in trouble.

Maybe there are some preachers leaving, and following those men he mention, but I don’t believe it is because of Calvinism. Maybe its because of the attitude we have developed in our ministry.

What kind of preacher do we need to be? To be the kind of man that others would want to be like? He is right. If we are the kind of men God’s wants us to be like, then we can see others want to follow in our foot steps. That is what we need.

Some may be attempting to change fundamentalism to something a little softer than what it traditionally has been. I suggests that zeal for Calvinism is not a significant motivator in this political movement, but rather a hunger to preach the Word rather than rant.

Rather they are wanting to see their church grow, and they want to see people saved, and they want to see spirit filled lives, and a church that is alive.

(Please if this is not in the spirit of your question, press the button to delete, I will understand).

Charles, an additional note: I deleted your second post because it will take our discussion in a direction I don’t want to go. My focus is on something that is happening within fundamentalist circles right now. I am not interested in making comparisons of Sweatt’s message [note spelling please!] to those of others from the past. I am interested in discussing the content of the message and the basic point pastor Sweatt was making.

The point is that the rise of interest in Calvinism is a significant factor in the attractiveness of Conservative Evangelicals to young fundamentalists AND it is accompanied by a willingness to overlook serious flaws in their theology and/or associations. I’d have to agree with you, though, that MacArthur is the least flawed of the bunch. I disagree with his Calvinism, but find him to be orthodox and mostly a man of integrity. I think he is guilty of pragmatism when it comes to the music he allows in his ministries and he is not as careful about associations as I would like him to be. Of course, he doesn’t answer to me.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Hi Charles

I think you miss the point of my question. I am not asking whether Calvinists are orthodox or not. I am not asking if Calvinists are zealous for souls or not. I am not asking whether Calvinists subscribe to fundamentalism or not.

What I am asking about is a political question. There is a political movement within the people known as fundamentalists that on the one hand has some departing from fundamentalism and on the other has some attempting to change fundamentalism to something a little softer than what it traditionally has been. My question suggests that zeal for Calvinism is a significant motivator in this political movement.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3