Comments on: toward an understanding of worldliness – pt. 1 https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/ fundamentalism by blunt instrument Sat, 15 May 2010 02:31:54 +0000 hourly 1 By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5336 Sat, 15 May 2010 02:31:54 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/#comment-5336 In reply to Jim Henderson.

Jim, I think there are many reasons why we can argue against the use of alcohol for Christians today. Please see my posts under the category of alcohol (check my archives page). The introductory illustration in this article isn’t exactly intended to say that drinking = worldliness, but it often is worldly, in my opinion. But you will have to wait and read all my articles in this series to get an understanding of the meaning of worldly and worldliness.

There are motivations for drinking that aren’t worldly, but they are also almost always wrong, in my opinion. But you’ll have to read my other posts to get the reasons why. I’m not going to go into that here.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: Jim Henderson https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5335 Sat, 15 May 2010 01:27:38 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/#comment-5335 I don’t understand why you use the consumption of alcohol to demonstrate worldliness. It seems that the Bible universally accepts the proper use of alcohol (eg wine being representative of celebration, use in sacrificial system, Jesus’ miracle at Cana, etc.). It is the excess in alcohol that is warned against and condemned.
How do we avoid falling off either side of the imperative to be in the world and not of the world? Wouldn’t an example of the proper use of alcohol be more in keeping with the commands of scripture rather than total abstention?
As a side note, as a student of history, it is interesting to me to observe that abstention is not the general position of the historical church. The connection between teetotalism and the church has roots in anti-Catholicism and Women’s Temperance Societies as recently as the 1820’s. Given the long history of the church accepting the use of alcohol even in the administration of the Lord’s supper, I tend to be suspicious of even conservative innovation away from the rule of the historical church. Please advise.

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By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5290 Thu, 06 May 2010 02:51:05 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/#comment-5290 In reply to Jim Peet.

Hi Jim

The whole 1 Cor 7 passage is worth a whole explanation all by itself — I don’t think Paul actually means to view marriage itself negatively, but that he is advising the single to seriously consider singleness for the purpose of better service for the Lord.

As for the term ‘worldly’, there is a sense in which the term ‘worldly’ is neutral – just things having to do with this world, or existing in this world. The ‘earthly’ tabernacle reference in Hebrews is a key clue. It isn’t evil because it is ‘worldly’, but it is ‘worldly’ because it is ‘in the world’, or ‘of the world’. I need to get up part 2, where I have a ‘working definition’ of ‘worldly’. I think that will help clarify this point.

More later.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: Jim Peet https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5289 Wed, 05 May 2010 14:03:46 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/#comment-5289 Question about your comment “… the preoccupation of the married with the things ‘of the world’” and 1 Corinthians 7:32-34.

Having been married for 35+ years, I have some experience here.

I don’t see (and perhaps I misunderstand the text) that “car[ing] about the things of the world—how he may please his wife” and the companion teaching on the wife – “But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband” – is viewed negatively by Paul.

Am I viewing this incorrectly?

There are a lot of very mundane issues that are dealt with in life. Last week we had a lock broken on our house – unable to lock the door! My “worldly” endeavor was to research a locksmith, work from home that day so I could greet him, select and agree on a price for the replacement lock, etc.

Of course there are a myriad of other examples of carrying for a wife and home!

So my question is this: Is “car[ing] about the things of the world” in the 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 sense to be viewed negatively?

Thanks

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By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5258 Wed, 28 Apr 2010 00:56:43 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/#comment-5258 In reply to Jim Peet.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the kind words. This is proving to be an interesting study. I come to it with preconceptions, some of which are being adjusted, some confirmed.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: Jim Peet https://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5257 Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:31:29 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/2010/04/25/toward-an-understanding-of-worldliness-pt-1/#comment-5257 Thanks for this very profitable article!

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