Comments on: do you do child dedication services?

By: ox

ox — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:47:00 +0000

Hi Sam, just tweaking you a bit on the “C” thing… thought I saw hints of it in your comments about “call”.

Anyway, I don’t want to get too involved in the hysteria thing here. But I will say that diligent godly vigilance of a community of believers with a godly pastor in the lead (not as the head, Christ is the head), is the ideal. We all ought to strive for that, including diligent discipleship and training of lay leadership (I hate the term “lay”) and personal spiritual vigilance is absolutely essential. I appreciate what you are saying here.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: Sam Hendrickson

Sam Hendrickson — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:20:05 +0000

Don,
Yes I do put quite a bit of effort into it to make sure we are at the business of accomplishing what I can see the Bible says about family and the church. I’m not sure where it lays out something calvinistic, (??).

Also, without diverting attention from the topic, but in relation to your “hysteria” remark, I actually see this kind of service, and other ways that we teach–including teaching leadership–I see these as part of a whole philosophy of how I am working against many of the IFB norms I came in contact with over the last 21 years. Baptists actually have some history of doing these kind of services–and they weren’t afraid of doing it because it “might look Catholic”–they knew its purpose. I think many other IFB pastors I have met know little of baptist history & heritage and have locked themselves into practices & philosophies of ministry which are new, not old–and act as though they are the guardians of a grand old trust–when it is often new fakery handled with a bully’s ham-handed elegance. This is part of what gets us into situations where leaders are carrying out their leadership positions in unbiblical and even cruel ways, and Scripture is warped to fit their quirks. And people, including children get bulldozed. Our Family Ded. Sunday is meant to help promote a safe, biblical, environment which speaks of accountability and biblical expressions of love, humility and our various God-ordained roles. Frankly, I am hopeful that this keeps us from ever being responsible for anything similar to the sad ways that Christ’s name is being soiled, for the hurt of a young child, for the loss of reputation of church leaders, and the blaspheming of God’s name by the lost.

This is part of our revolution against what we see as wrong in IFB doctrine, method and mindset–pure and simple.

By: ox

ox — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 17:08:13 +0000

In reply to Sam Hendrickson.

Thanks, Sam, that’s a very interesting approach. (Aside from the Calvinistic bits, heh, heh!!!)

But, seriously, that is a good alternative. I’ll have to think on that some. Would be better than the Hallmark Holidays (Mother’s Day, Father’s Day)! [See, I have other radical views!]

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: Sam Hendrickson

Sam Hendrickson — Mon, 18 Apr 2011 16:49:00 +0000

Don,
At our church, I have implemented a Family Dedication Sunday–annually. It is designed with the idea that believing parents will participate. In the service, we call the parents to raise their children in the light of the Gospel. If there are children who can understand, we call them to obey the Gospel. If there are children there from whom we have heard a profession of faith in Christ, we call them to obey their Lord Jesus Christ. For all children, whatever their spiritual condition we call them to we call them to obey the authorities which God their Creator has established for them. We then call the church to take their part in helping the parents help their children to follow Christ/to follow God. The Gospel is plainly laid out in the service. If there are unbelieving parents there, they hear the Good News, and are warned that their participation in this cannot be viewed in some sacerdotal or superstitious way. If they refuse to hear the Truth and hold to their superstitions or sacerdotal viewpoint, I am unsure what more I can do–we are very clear as to what we are doing. I have this service because I believe it is an acceptable way to help bind our church family together about this whole matter. I also see it as a way to evangelize the lost. A friend of mine says that we don’t design discipleship vehicles for people who will purposely try to misunderstand or twist Scripture –you design it for people who want to follow Christ. For the people who decide to twist the meaning of this particular event (even with my being clear as to its purpose and meaning), I hope to have one-on-one conversations with. Our church finds this to be a hopeful, helpful service.

By: ox

ox — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 15:58:42 +0000

In reply to ox. Hmm... maybe I should rephrase my last comment! I don't mean to imply anything negative about any who have added their thoughts to this thread. I am listening to this audio version of Pilgrim's Progress this week, my mind is full of Bunyanesque phraseology. Maranatha! Don Johnson Jeremiah 33.3 P.S. The narrator for this version is a woman named Nadia May. I have listened to a number of audiobooks narrated by her. She is superb!

By: ox

ox — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 03:24:58 +0000

In reply to Fred Moritz.

Hi Dr. M!

I think that is your first ever comment here!

Well, I understand the rationale. I know I am an anomaly here. One always wonders when you are the only guy holding a position… How can the entire world be so wrong!

It isn’t that big an issue, but we have someone who is talking to my wife (or my wife heard about them talking to someone else about it)… needless to say, this is not a case of a dedicated disciple, and I am afraid it is more out of tradition and superstition that the request is being made. So I thought I’d throw my anomalous position out there and let the internet dogs worry it to death!

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jeremiah 33.3

By: Fred Moritz

Fred Moritz — Sun, 17 Apr 2011 03:18:39 +0000

Dr. R. V. Clearwaters used to do them as an alternative to pedobaptism in Lutheran/Catholic Minnesota.

When I pastored I did them for parents on request. We always made it clear that the parents were dedicating themselves to raise the children for God’s glory, and they were acknowledging in the tradition of Hannah and Psalm 127 that the children were gifts from the Lord.

Just something for the rationale of doing them. We had a service when each of our three were born.

By: Brian Ernsberger

Brian Ernsberger — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:00:01 +0000

Good thoughts by all. Don, would agree with you when confronted with the request by people you have described as the ones who requested it. That is not the case in the one I speak of.

By: ox

ox — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:17:12 +0000

In reply to David Barnhart.

Oh, yes, that’s right! I don’t insist that anyone believe exactly what I believe on this point… hardly a fundamental!

Thanks Dave.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: David Barnhart

David Barnhart — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:26:09 +0000

I don’t know if this is similar to what you are trying to say, but knowing myself and how I would react with a pastor with your beliefs on this issue, I believe it would be possible to accept your judgment as the pastor in authority (without offense), but also without accepting your thinking on the topic.