Comments on: getting what matters most https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/ fundamentalism by blunt instrument Mon, 08 Apr 2013 23:46:15 +0000 hourly 1 By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-32665 Mon, 08 Apr 2013 23:46:15 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-32665 In reply to M. Martin.

Thanks for the comment.

No doubt, you are absolutely right. I take no joy in that.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: M. Martin https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-32664 Mon, 08 Apr 2013 23:27:31 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-32664 Don, for a few years now Olson and NIU have been trending away from not only their historical heritage (including a large number of their alumni) but their version of fundamentalism as well – both without apology. Many people have contacted Dr. Olson, and I’m sure Dr. Ollila as well to address their concerns. Obviously those concerns have been dismissed. Northland’s alumni and even past faculty & staff do deserve an apology, but that is not likely in coming.
NIU built their program, buildings, and fundraising efforts on the backs of hundreds of families and churches who gave because they believed in what NIU represented. Now NIU is making at 90* left turn without so much a whisper of apology or consideration to all the people and churches from which they benefited.

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By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-32663 Wed, 03 Apr 2013 22:33:33 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-32663 In reply to Don Sailer.

Interesting comment, Don.

You are the grandson of Harold Patz? Is that correct?

You are quite wrong in your understanding of historic fundamentalism. You are wrong in way too many ways for me to take the time to go over here. I would suggest you read George Marsden’s Fundamentalism and American Culture to get a better picture. What you are describing is classic New Evangelicalism as espoused by Billy Graham et al. They were the ones who changed in the 50s and 60s, not the fundamentalists.

Maybe you’ll get the apology you seek. It doesn’t really matter. What I’d like to get out of Northland is a little honesty. The philosophy has clearly changed. It has changed in such a way that Northland is operating contrary to its own founding documents. My hope is that they show a little integrity, be honest about how they have changed, make it clear where they now stand, and act in harmony with it.

Unfortunately, I don’t expect that to happen. There are still a few fundamentalists who might send some tuition payments their way as long as they remain ambiguous.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: Don Sailer https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-32662 Wed, 03 Apr 2013 18:28:52 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-32662 Below is a web site that is asking Matt Olson to explain the new direction that Northland is headed. Matt is right when he stated that he is seeking to catch up with the alumni. I’ve also included my comments below. I wish Northland would publicly apologize to all of their alumni that they sought to discredit through name-calling, but I am glad to know that Northland finally gets it. Breaking fellowship with other Bible-believing Christians is a sin. I’m glad that Matt Olson is leading Northland back into historic fundamentalism and healthy fellowship with all who lift up the name of Jesus and who are together for the Gospel.

http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2013/03/dr-matt-olson-i-apologize-to-you-for.html?showComment=1364817492697

Matt Olson is following many of Northland’s alumni into historic fundamentalism. That’s right, into historic fundamentalism. Today’s modern “fundamentalism” is a mere shell of what thriving, healthy fundamentalism looked like in the early 1900s. Then, men and women from many denominations banded together around the fundamentals of the faith. Denominational distinctives, though important in each denomination, were not barriers to fellowship and unity. This is the direction Matt Olson is going. Northland is removing the unbiblical “separation” barriers that it had erected between itself and other Bible-believing denominations such as the Baptist General Conference, Conservative Baptist Convention, Evangelical Free Church of America, etc.

This movement out of the fringe and back into historic, fundamentalist Christianity is a breath of fresh air. I know, because as the grandson of the founder of Northland, I took this step in the early 80s. Sure, Northland’s leadership at the time called me names, such as “new evangelical.” But I knew that I was actually walking down the path of historic fundamentalism. More importantly, I knew I was obeying God and no longer calling “unclean” what God had called “clean.” It wasn’t that hard of a step because the Patz family was never in the camp that Harold Patz led Northland into. BJU style fundamentalism was not our history as a family! And separating from Billy Graham was unheard of.

So things are changing now, but for the good. Northland is returning to the Patz family roots. Harold Patz has watched his children and their spouses live devout lives for Christ in the denominations mentioned above. And Harold Patz, Les Ollila, and Matt Olson have seen the light. When your own kids are serving Christ faithfully in denominations once renounced, it creates dissonance. Thankfully, God has used this dissonance to wake up the leadership at Northland. Now, perhaps, Northland can become the school that God intended it to be. One that is in line with the founder and his family. One that reflects the glory of God and the unity of the saints. May God be praised.

Blessings,

Don Sailer

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By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-24876 Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:51:50 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-24876 In reply to Lou Martuneac.

Well, there are some ramifications of a continuing pattern of these types of decisions. One-off incidents don’t make a trend. However, this one is pretty serious. It speaks to integrity for sure. Unfortunately I can envision several possible outcomes. None of them are really all that happy. However, I don’t want to speculate on what might happen.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: Lou Martuneac https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-24874 Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:42:21 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-24874 In reply to T. Pennock.

Don:

Well done with the article at P&D. (Give us a link here and I will from my blog) I am grateful for the FBFI through its blog for having addressed this issue in a timely manner. One thought on the article: Wouldn’t NIU’s close association with the SGM Charismatic church, essentially render it no longer a fundamentalist Baptist ministry?

Lou Martuneac

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By: T. Pennock https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-24872 Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:15:53 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-24872 Don,

I read your article at PD and found it struck the right tone and stated the issue fairly.

Already some at SI are trying to make this a personal matter, nothing more. Yet they carefully omit any concerns about Matt’s departure from the letter and spirit of NIU’s doctrinal statement, a statement that clearly spells out the school’s position on its associations with the charismatics.

Why isn’t this an issue of integrity? If Matt now feels constrained by the school’s doctrinal positions, fine. But he should at least say so. It’s uncharitable, to say the least, for him to force people to surmise about his current convictions through his new-found associations. If he can no longer uphold his school’s convictions, then he should say so and step down–or change the school’s position.

I don’t know the NIU Board Members. But I’m sure they’re people of integrity, or else they wouldn’t be there. Personally, I hope they find that Matt’s remarks were made without his recognizing their broader context and implications and the position from which he speaks. I’m sure he has enthusiasm for his grads, but some of them carry baggage. And he would be wise to recognize that, and the board would be wise to remind Matt of it.

tjp

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By: ox https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-24869 Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:08:59 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-24869 In reply to Lou Martuneac.

FYI, I have posted a re-worked version of this article at Proclaim & Defend. More details, less sarcasm. Perhaps I should try less sarcasm from now on. One of my friends says its good discipline!

I contacted Matt yesterday and sent him a copy of the new article. He promised to get back to me on it, but I hope that he will make a public response. I think this particular move is a pretty serious matter.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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By: Lou Martuneac https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-24865 Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:50:33 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-24865 In reply to Brian Ernsberger.

Tracy/Brian:

Tracy brings up good questions, where is the board of NIU on this?

IMO, we may know more with the next NIU board meeting. Any board member who has serious concerns with what has transpired won’t stay on much longer. I suspect most will stay on and NIU will, over the next 5+/- years, wither away. It will go the way of Pillsbury minus an attempt to recover what was thrown away.

LM

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By: Brian Ernsberger https://oxgoad.ca/2012/08/13/getting-what-matters-most/comment-page-1/#comment-24855 Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:04:31 +0000 http://oxgoad.ca/?p=2039#comment-24855 Based upon the track record of the above mentioned men (Bauder, Doran, Jordan, et. al.) they have no reason to denounce what Matt Olson has said and done. These men have, to one degree or another, opened up avenues to evangelicals without much in the way of warnings. So why would they denounce a fellow who is pursuing those same avenues?
Tracy brings up good questions, where is the board of NIU on this?

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