Comments on: ek•kle•si•a

By: T. Pennock

T. Pennock — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:51:53 +0000

In reply to Bobby.

Bobby,

There’s nothing you say here that any Scripturally-grounded universal church advocate doesn’t accept. So what’s your point?

tjp

By: Steve Newman

Steve Newman — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:30:32 +0000

Not “either/or” but both….
The local church IS “the pillar and ground of the truth” in Timothy. The context is that of a local church with pastors, deacons, etc. The churches that Christ walks among in Rev. 2-3 are local churches. But that does not mean that there is not a universal church.
The question is “which one is primary in our day?” I would say that God has given authority of discipline, structured leadership, etc. to the local church and that it ought to be primary for a believer.
The church is BOTH an organism (body) and organization (assembly).

By: Andrew

Andrew — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:20:33 +0000

Very good and helpful article. It has helped me as I explain the concept of church to our new believers here in Brazil. Thanks!

By: Huw Thomas

Huw Thomas — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 08:35:58 +0000

The accurate interpretation of ecclesia in the NT usage is simple. A congregation or an assembly of people, called out people. Called out of the world/eon and into the Kingdom that has been preached. An assembly or congregation, not of this world., but of a people that have been called out to serve and to worship.

By: ox

ox — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 04:00:13 +0000

In reply to ox.

Ok Bobby, you’ve had a say. If you want to put forward an argument from Scripture without the emotional rhetoric, I’ll approve it. But if it is just more of the same it will get trashed.

To start with, perhaps you could explain why the “local only” position is important.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: Bobby

Bobby — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 01:59:47 +0000

So the local church that Jesus walks in the midst of, that is called the “pillar and ground of the truth,” that has been given the ordinances and the Great commission, that is responsible to maintain discipline . . . is “merely a reflection” of your big church in the sky, TJP. Not difficult to grasp, just not Scriptural. You can have your catholic church. I’ll stick with what the Bible reveals.

By: T. Pennock

T. Pennock — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 23:15:11 +0000

In reply to ox.

Don,

Yes, the genius of the One Body is that it’s always assembled, always together. It’s permenently joined together (assembled) by the one Spirit with Christ as its Head. Thus the church in Heaven is one with the church on earth. There’s no dichotomy here. And the church in Europe is one with the church in Amercia. That is, all true believers form the ONE BODY OF CHRIST and are assembled in Christ. The local assembly is merely a refection of that. I’m not sure why that’s so difficult to grasp.

tjp

By: ox

ox — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 22:52:51 +0000

In reply to Bobby.

Bobby, I think that’s my point. Read what I said carefully. The genius of the New Testament church is that it exists without assembly.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

By: Bobby

Bobby — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 22:50:01 +0000

Don wrote: “One of the arguments made against the concept of the universal church is that it has never assembled and it cannot assemble in the present age.
However, the New Testament concept of the church teaches that the church is still the church whether assembled or not. That is true of my local church. We don’t cease to be who we are when we go home on Sunday afternoon. In a sense, I think this is true because through the unity of the Spirit, we are always assembled.”

Ok, so when has your universal church assembled at all? Your comparison doesn’t, uh, compare…

By: ox

ox — Wed, 23 Oct 2013 22:31:30 +0000

In reply to Steve Newman.

Thanks. I’m just waiting for some of my good friends who disagree to weigh in. I’m sure they will have something to say.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3