{"id":765,"date":"2008-05-25T23:26:57","date_gmt":"2008-05-26T07:26:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/2008\/05\/25\/when-you-wish-more-was-said\/"},"modified":"2008-05-26T07:52:23","modified_gmt":"2008-05-26T15:52:23","slug":"when-you-wish-more-was-said","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/2008\/05\/25\/when-you-wish-more-was-said\/","title":{"rendered":"when you wish more was said…"},"content":{"rendered":"

Frank Sansone alerts us that the 9Marks interview with Mark Minnick by Mark Dever is now available<\/a>. I stayed up late to listen to it because, as you know, this is my main topic.<\/p>\n

Frank heard about it from Andy Naselli and I see that Greg Linscott is linking to it as well over at his site. I expect this to immediately be the topic du jour in the fundamentalist blogosphere.<\/p>\n

Why would that be? Because as Minnick points out very well in the interview: “Associations matter.”<\/p>\n

This interview matters because associations matter. I think I understand what Pastor Minnick is trying to do in having communication with Pastor Dever, but even this low-level public association matters (though it is certainly not the same thing as sitting on a platform in a cooperative effort or appearing on the platform of Capital Hill BC, for example).<\/p>\n

This interview, I predict will be the buzz this next week because associations matter<\/strong><\/em>.<\/p>\n

But, oh, how I wish a little more had been said!<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

I believe Pastor Minnick did a credible job explaining the rationale of Biblical separation. I think he did a good job providing Biblical illustration of the concept from the life of Jehoshaphat and the issue between Peter and Paul recorded in Gal 2. Where he fell short was in making clear specific real world application in a way that could be readily seen and understood.<\/p>\n

Dever gave Minnick every opportunity to do so. In fact, he pressed him to do so, asking several times, “What do we have to do for you as fundamentalists to feel free to accept an invitation to preach in our pulpit here at CHBC?” Pastor Minnick only answered this question in vague generalities, reiterating the essential theory of separation.<\/p>\n

In fact, at one point where Dever was pressing Minnick, he started to say something like, “I was just at this conference…” Minnick was in the midst of his answer and may not have heard that reference. I think it was very significant. The interview with Minnick was done, I believe, on Feb 27. Right about at that same time Dever had been at the Acts 29 Conference in Chicago and had made his seriously flawed endorsement of that effort, as I reported elsewhere<\/a>.<\/p>\n

I think I know why Pastor Minnick was vague at this point, and that is he genuinely hopes to influence Dever and others like him to seriously look at the doctrine of separation for themselves. He didn’t want to get too close to Dever’s own associations specifically when pressed for fear of upsetting that effort. At least, that is what I think lay behind the vagueness. (I have been in correspondence with Pastor Minnick on this point and will be sending him the link to this post. I also hope to see him later on next month and will ask him personally about it if I can get a chance.)<\/p>\n

However… if only he had felt at liberty to say something like this:<\/p>\n

“If Open Theism is tolerated within a man’s denomination, that would be an issue demanding a public rebuke and ongoing battle, wouldn’t you agree? And if that battle was not clearly being fought, what would you say about a pastor remaining in that conference? And would you invite him to your pulpit? And would you invite him to your Together for the Gospel conference?”<\/p>\n

For Dever, the answer to that question is “Yes” at the moment. (And I think it unlikely to change.)<\/p>\n

Or, for example, if only something like this would have been said:<\/p>\n

“If someone publicly opposes Billy Graham’s foolish statement on Robert Shuler’s program that basically says ‘if you’re sincere, you’ll go to heaven, even if you never heard of Christ’, and that same someone makes some noises about how he wouldn’t cooperate with the Billy Graham Crusade when it came to town [and didn’t], but then goes to the Cove<\/a> [Billy Graham’s training institution] for a week as a special speaker and writes an article<\/a> in Billy Graham’s Decision magazine… Would you invite that same someone to speak to your people and participate in your Together for the Gospel conference?”<\/p>\n

You see, there are some real world examples that Dever needs to be confronted with.<\/p>\n

I hope Mark Minnick will do some of this kind of personal confrontation on a one on one level with Dever. I hope that there will be a resolution of this situation soon because if there is not, the ranks of those of us who look up to Pastor Minnick as a leader will be seriously confused. Is Dever someone we should look to for leadership? Is he someone whom we will not confront about his associations with: Piper, MacArthur, Mahaney, Acts 29 and the Whiteboard Sessions, etc.? Are we simply going to let these things slide by and let our young men wonder where we stand on them?<\/p>\n

\"don_sig2\"<\/p>\n

UPDATE:<\/strong> Perhaps my examples above are a little too personal, a little too direct, especially in the host’s house. For another example, couldn’t Falwell’s Moral Majority have sufficed? It would fit very well with the Jehoshaphat illustration as well.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Frank Sansone alerts us that the 9Marks interview with Mark Minnick by Mark Dever is now available. I stayed up late to listen to it because, as you know, this is my main topic. Frank heard about it from Andy Naselli and I see that Greg Linscott is linking to it as well over at […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_is_tweetstorm":false,"jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true},"categories":[61,37,71,87,77,68,44],"tags":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2fYWj-cl","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/765"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=765"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/765\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=765"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=765"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/oxgoad.ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=765"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}